Image © Jino Sam
“我感覺到建筑是一種罪惡”:采訪Wallmakers事務所的Vinu Daniel
“I Am Always Mindful That Construction is a Sin”: Interview with Vinu Daniel of Wallmakers
由專筑網Zia,小R編譯
大多數建筑師在舒適的辦公室里設計項目,坐在辦公桌前,在電腦上做著決定,似乎可以遠程操控著施工現場。這種方式可能可以設計出前衛的或是客觀上美觀的建筑,但無法真正滿足一些特定建造的要求。那么這些問題如何解決呢?是否有可能建造一些新的東西,就好像它是已經存在的事務的延伸,同事有著最內在、有影響、但卻原始的形式?印度南部喀拉拉邦首府特里凡得瑯的獲獎建筑事務所Wallmakers的創始人Vinu Daniel說,找出答案的唯一方法就是從場地本身開始。
他說:“建筑實踐不應該是把一堆文件從辦公室轉移到現場�!苯ㄖ䦷煹墓ぷ鲬斨苯觼碜杂诂F場,來自于以最觸手可及的方式。這一切都始于對場地的考察,并利用現場周圍步行范圍內的材料,如土壤、磚塊和各種廢棄物,甚至包括輪胎、啤酒瓶,甚至廢棄的塑料玩具。這種方法可以產生高度原創的作品,比如獨戶住宅,它們都擁有獨特的物理反應。
Most architects design projects in the comfort of their offices, sitting behind their desks, making decisions by looking at their flatscreens, never visiting a construction site, and managing everything remotely. This attitude may lead to a design of a sleek and even objectively beautiful building. But such a solution can’t be anywhere near a genuine response to what any given site may require. How do you even find out? Is it possible to build something new as if it were an extension of what is already there in the most innate, consequential, yet original form? The only way to find out is to start from the site itself, says Vinu Daniel, the founder of Wallmakers, an award-winning architectural practice in Trivandrum, the capital of the southern Indian state of Kerala.
He told me: “An architectural practice should not be about transferring a bunch of papers from the office to the site.” The architect’s work emerges right from the site, from his direct engagement with it in the most tactile ways. It all starts by examining the place and working with materials that are available within walking distance around the site – soil, brick, and all kinds of waste, including tires, beer bottles, and even discarded plastic toys. This disciplined approach has resulted in highly original work – mostly single-family residences – a unique physical response every time.
Image © Jino Sam
Vinu Daniel 1982年出生于迪拜,在阿布扎比的一個傳統印度家庭中長大,有兩個哥哥姐姐。他的父親在阿聯酋管理一家辦公用品企業。后來Daniel回到他的祖國,在特里凡得瑯工程學院的建筑學校學習,并在位于北部的奧羅維爾地球研究所學習了兩年。在那里他了解了用土壤、水泥和磚塊建造工程的過程。他在2007年開始了他的實踐,向他的工匠們傳授隨著時間流逝而消失的傳統建筑技術,這些技術結合了現代和傳統的做法,是他在奧羅維爾學到的。目前,他雇用了超過100位工匠,在印度各地從事近20個項目的設計和施工,每個項目都由一名建筑師直接駐扎在現場指導。
在對Vinu Daniel進行采訪時,他正在紐約班加羅爾郊區監督目前正在建設的一個項目——一所農場學校。我們談到了他對廢物建筑的關注,以及在喀拉拉邦執業的英國建筑師Laurie Baker對他的影響,他們都習慣于親力親為,并且在建設過程中充分考慮生態環境。
Vinu Daniel was born in Dubai in 1982 and grew up in Abu Dhabi in a traditional Indian family with two older siblings. His father managed an office supplies business in the UAE. Daniel returned to his ancestral homeland to study at architecture school at the College of Engineering in Trivandrum, after which he spent two years at the Auroville Earth Institute, just north of Pondicherry, where he learned about the engineering processes behind building with soil, cement, and mud blocks. He started his practice in 2007 by teaching his craftsmen traditional building techniques that were lost over time and which he learned in Auroville. His techniques incorporate both modern and traditional practices. Today he employs between 100 and 150 people, mostly craftsmen. He currently works on the design and construction of nearly 20 projects across India, each led by one of his architects stationed directly at each of these sites.
In our interview with Vinu Daniel over Zoom between New York and the outskirts of Bangalore, where he was overseeing one of his projects currently under construction, a farm school, we talked about his mission-like focus on building with waste, the influence of British architect Laurie Baker who practiced in Kerala, working with his own hands, and how to preserve ecology instead of building over it.
Image © Syam Sreesylam
Vladimir Belogolovsky:你的所有項目都非常有意識地處理廢物問題。這意味著,你的項目都代表了你關于廢物問題的態度,對嗎?
Vinu Daniel:當然了�,F在不是應當有人對此有堅定的立場嗎?前幾代的建筑師們生活在不同的時代,但現在我們的資源非常有限,我們必須注意建筑材料來自哪里,成本如何,這就需要我們在這方面有想法。我不是指責任何人,只是認為我們可以為此做到一些事情。我認為這是一個機會,利用廢物進行建筑工作并沒有受到足夠的重視,但我認為這是一個充滿神奇機會的領域。
Vladimir Belogolovsky: All your projects deal with waste very consciously. This means that every one of your projects is a statement about waste issues, right?
Vinu Daniel: Of course. Isn’t it time for someone to have a strong position about this? Previous generations of architects lived in a different kind of time. Now we have very limited resources and we must be mindful of where building materials come from and at what cost. We need to be intelligent about that. And instead of blaming anyone, we can do something beautiful about it. I see it as an opportunity. Building with waste was never considered a challenge. I see it as a whole new world of fantastic opportunities.
Image © Jino Sam
VB:為了描述你的作品,你使用了諸如簡單、合理和美觀等詞匯。你還會用什么詞來描述你試圖實現的那種建筑?
VD:我一直在想的一個詞是未來。如果商業建筑師繼續按照他們今天的方式運作,未來將是黑暗的。建筑師們怎么能確定他們在舒適的辦公室里規劃的東西都會以某種方式來實現?而且,這不僅僅是單個項目的問題。項目需要相互關聯,并考慮到我們的整體環境。建筑師必須走出辦公室,去往現場,為一個更好的未來而努力。
VB: To describe your work, you use such words as simplicity, rationality, and beauty. What other words or short phrases would you use to describe the kind of architecture that you try to achieve?
VD: One word that I always think about is the future. If commercial architects continue to operate the way they do today, the future will be dark. How can architects be sure that whatever they plan in the comfort of their offices somehow would turn out to be okay? And it is not just about individual projects. Projects need to be interrelated and mindful of our environment overall. Architects must get out of their screen spaces more often. We all must work toward a better future.
Image © Syam Sreesylam
VB:你的客戶都有哪些?
VD:他們都是非常不同的人,從牧師到電影制片人,再到政治家。我們現在正在一個已故傳奇音樂家S.P. Balasubrahmanyam建造的農場里建造一個博物館。而我最初的客戶都是熟人。
VB:你在談到你的工作時說,“我們制作的結構既有功利性又有誘惑力”。所以,你非常注意作品的外觀,對嗎?它必須是美觀的。
VD:當然了! 為什么像特斯拉這樣的產品會如此受歡迎?不僅是因為其中所傳達的可持續發展的信息,更多的是它們的形象�?沙掷m發展并不是要回到過去,按照我們祖先的方式做事�?沙掷m發展意味著展望未來,展望更進步、更可持續的各種新技術和工藝。
VB: Who are your clients?
VD: Very different people – from pastors to filmmakers, to politicians and we are now working on a museum on a farm built by a legendary late musician, S.P. Balasubrahmanyam. My initial clients were all relatives.
VB: You said about your work, “We make structures that are both utilitarian and alluring.” So, you are very mindful of how your work looks, right? It must be beautiful.
VD: Of course! Why are products such as Tesla so popular? Not only because of their message of sustainability but more so because of their image. Being sustainable is not about going back in time and doing things the way our ancestors have done. Being sustainable means looking forward to the future, looking forward to new kinds of technologies and techniques that are more progressive and sustainable.
Image © Anand Jaju
VB:你能談談Laurie Baker對你工作的影響嗎?
VD:正是因為看到了他的作品,才確定了我今天作為一個建筑師的身份。我很幸運能見到他,他邀請我們這些學生去他家,在大約四個小時的時間里,我對他的世界有了了解,這改變了我對建筑的態度。在那之后,我開始注意到廢物利用,并思考其作為建筑材料的潛力。Baker促進了區域性建筑實踐的復興,依靠當地的材料,強調了對資源和能源的負責和謹慎使用。他是以最有機的方式進行可持續建筑的先驅者。那次會面非常深刻地影響了我的信念,在那之前,我對是否要在專業上追求建筑有疑問,而與他的會面明確了我的選擇。
VB: Could you talk about the influence of Laurie Baker on your work?
VD: It was discovering his work that defined who I am today as an architect. I was lucky to meet him when he invited us, the students, to his home and I got an incredible insight into his world for around four hours, which changed my attitude towards architecture. After that, I started noticing a lot of waste and thinking about its potential as a building material. Baker promoted the revival of regional building practices, relying on local materials, and he emphasized the responsible and prudent use of resources and energy. He was our pioneer of sustainable architecture in the most organic ways. That meeting influenced my beliefs very profoundly. Before that, I had doubts about whether to pursue architecture professionally. Meeting him solidified my choice.
Image © Anand Jaju
我從他那里學到了五英里半徑的材料采購原則,我對建筑的許多想法都是我對他的建筑實踐思考的結果�?梢哉f,他是我們的引路燈。他使喀拉拉邦擺脫了傳統的思維方式,給了我一個方向。如果我在印度的其他地方,可能都不會有如此直接的影響。但在我遇到他的時候,他并沒有被譽為一個突破性的建筑師。他會受到批評,有人說他的建筑不會持久,不適合居住,對自然太開放,沒有足夠的圍合等等。但他為我和其他許多年輕的建筑師鋪平了道路,讓我們開始實踐探索一些開創性想法。盡管有各種批評,他還是無畏地追求他的理想。
I learned about the five-mile radius material sourcing from him and many of my ideas about architecture are the result of the reflections I had on his practice of architecture. He was our Hercules, so to speak. He moved Kerala out of the traditional mindset. He gave me a direction. If I were in any other state in India, this would not have such a direct impact. But at the time I met him he was not celebrated as a breakthrough architect. He was criticized a lot. It was said about his buildings that they would not last, they were not fit for habitation, they were too open to nature, did not have enough insulation, and so on. But he paved the way for me and many other younger architects to start our practices to explore his pioneering ideas. He was fearless in pursuing his projects despite all the criticism.
Image © Jino Sam
VB:談到你的工作,你說:“很多時候,我在現場手動處理泥漿,我用我的雙手工作,我認為這有很大的樂趣,因為開始在一個全新的水平上理解材料�!彼�,你是一個自己建造建筑的建筑師,是嗎?
VD:我相信,只有當你開始用自己的雙手工作時,你才能理解你作為一個建筑師在做什么。很多建筑師盡管沒有任何經驗,也可以輕松地在一張紙上設計出機場。但如果給他幾塊磚,他們就不知道該怎么做了。建筑師是紙和筆的主人,但他們對磚沒有同樣的感覺,他們會覺得被嚇到了。但我對磚有熟悉的感覺。就像其他人對筆和紙的感覺一樣。所有的建筑師都有一本素描本,他們可以在上面天馬行空。但我希望建筑師們對他們打算使用的材料感到同樣的熟悉。他們越是與之打交道,就越是感到自在,找到每種材料的真實性質并與之相適應是很重要的。在這方面,我一直在向我的工人學習。
VB: Speaking about your work you said, “Very often, I manually handle the mud on site, I work with my hands — I think there is great pleasure in that, and one begins to understand material on a whole new level.” So, you are an architect who builds your own buildings, right?
VD: I am convinced that you can only understand what you are doing as an architect when you start working with your own hands. So many architects without any hesitation, despite not having any previous experience, will design a whole airport on a piece of paper. But if the same person is given a few bricks, they wouldn’t know what to do with them. Architects are masters of pen and paper, but they don’t feel the same with bricks. They feel intimidated. But I feel at home with the brick. Just like others feel at home with pen and paper. All architects have a sketchbook. They can go to any extreme in their drawings. I want the architects to feel as comfortable with the material they intend to work with. The more they work with it the more they will feel at ease. It is important to find the true nature of each material and to be in tune with it. I learn from my workers all the time.
Image © Jino Sam
VB:關于Mananthala的IHA住宅,你在沼澤地上建造的房子,你說:“比起房子本身,我對我沒有建造的東西或者說我能夠保留的東西更加自豪。而每一個新的項目,我都會再次成為土地的學生,場地會決定這個過程�!�
VD:(笑)那所房子對我來說是一個轉折點。那時我覺得我是用磚頭建造的大師,而我也想掌握景觀工作。我發現,很多景觀都是完全人造的,比如有很多進口植物,可能看起來很美,但它們在這個地方沒有歸屬感。慢慢地,我開始明白,現實中的沼澤地、坑洞和其他生態環境比我們在電腦上制作的任何東西都更真實,這些完全可以取代它們。所以,我的想法不是安插新的植物,而是利用那里已經存在的植物。它們已經足夠美麗了,更重要的是,現有的生態環境能夠被改善嗎?
VB: About your IHA Residence in Mananthala, the house you built over a swamp, you said, “I'm more proud of what I didn't build or rather what I was able to preserve than of the house itself. And with every new project, I become a student of the land again, and the site will define the process.”
VD: [Laughs.] That house was a big turning point for me. By then I felt I was the master of building with brick. And I wanted to also master working with landscape. What I discovered is that so many landscapes are entirely artificial. There are so many imported plants there. They may look beautiful, but they don’t feel belonging in the place. And slowly I started to understand that the swamps, pits, and other ecologies that we so often build over are more real and important than whatever we make on the computer to replace them. So, the idea was not to bring new plants but to have the same plants that already exist there. They are beautiful enough. More importantly, the question is — Can the existing ecology be improved?
Image © Anand Jaju
那所房子的場地有一片沼澤,里面有兩條蛇。因此,我們為它們建造了一個特殊的圍欄,并將房子抬高在上面,這樣蛇就不容易進入房子,房子里的居民也不會無意中接觸到它們。這樣一來,蛇就可以繼續過自己的生活。畢竟,誰才是那里真正的原住民?毫無疑問,植物和動物先來到那里。承認它們的所有權也是很重要的,因為這些蛇是出色的守護者,它們保衛房子不受老鼠的侵擾。這也是一個面對生態環境的解決思路,這些蛇必須被保存下來,它們通過捕食青蛙、蠕蟲、蟋蟀、蜘蛛、蚊子和嚙齒動物來生存,而且它們對人是無害的。
The house you mentioned had a swamp and two snakes in it. So, we built a special enclosure for them and elevated the house over it in such a way that the snakes could not get into the house easily and no inhabitants of the house would come in contact with them unintentionally. This way the snakes can continue to live their own lives. After all, who are the real inhabitants there? The plants and animals were there first. It is important to recognize their ownership as well. And these snakes are wonderful guardians. They defend the house against infestation of rats, which is often a problem. These snakes must be preserved for our ecology to survive and they feed on their own by preying on frogs, worms, crickets, spiders, mosquitos, and rodents, of course. And they are harmless to people.
Image © Anand Jaju
VB:你說,“我是一個緩慢的建設者,我不著急”。能詳細解釋一下嗎?
VD:(笑)完全正確!我正在一磚一瓦地建設。嗯,一磚一瓦地建造。這需要時間,我試圖小心謹慎,考慮到我可能會因為建造東西而傷害到什么。我也很謹慎,因為我總是感覺建筑是一種罪惡,你需要盡可能地減少傷亡和影響。所以,要小心,要慢。
VB: You said, “I am a slow builder. I take my time.” Could you elaborate?
VD: [Laughs.] This is absolutely true! Well, I am building brick by brick. It takes time, you know? I am trying to be careful and considerate about what I may be harming by building something. I am being cautious because I am always mindful that construction is a sin. You need to limit the casualties as much as possible. So, be careful and be slow.
Image © Jino Sam
VB:而你說,“建筑不再是一種職業,事實上,它已經成為一種危害”。
VD:因為如果我們繼續以今天的方式進行建設,我們將摧毀一切。我們有這么多的生態災難,很多都是通過非常不負責任的建設方式造成的。這樣做,我們在人與人之間制造了很多的隔閡,我們不再能像以前那樣相互接觸,建筑師創造了太多的界限。
VB: And you said, “Architecture is no longer a profession, but it has, in fact, become a hazard.”
VD: Because if we continue building the way we are building today; we will destroy everything. We have so many ecological disasters, but it is we who created these problems in the first place by building very irresponsibly. And doing so we have created so many boundaries between people. We no longer can engage with one another the way we used to. Architects created too many boundaries.
Image © Jino Sam
VB:我想用你的另一句話來結束采訪,“每一個新的項目都是不同的,每一次你都會有新的設計頓悟”。
VD:(笑)確實如此!
VB: I would like to end with another one of your quotes, “Every new project is different, and every time you pray for a new design epiphany.”
VD: [Laughs.] I really do!
Image © Jino Sam
Image © Jino Sam
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Image © Syam Sreesylam
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Image © Anand Jaju
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Image © Jino Sam
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Image © Anand Jaju
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